From: 106410.2165@compuserve.com (Andy
Ryrie)
Date: Mon Apr 14 17:41:24 1997
Subject: Registry debate
To: Econ-LETS@mailbase.ac.uk (Econ-LETS)
AR: The major obstacle came from a member
who argued from a
perspective which has been greatly influenced
by Rudolph Steiners
work on economics. His notion is that
LETSystems should aim to develop
into one global currency.
JCT: Since the
Hounslow LETS actually uses a currency showing
that 1 Hour is worth 6 Cranes or 6 Pounds,
and since all LETSes are
similarly convertible into the universal
standard of Hour time, LETS
already is a Global currency. They just
aren't trading between each
other yet.
It's just like
many casinos in the area. Their tokens are all
worth the same hourly value but they just
haven't agreed to accept
each others chips between casinos yet
though users in the real world
have no aversion to accepting Ceasar's
Palace chips even though they
play at the Taj Mahal.
The very idea
of too many of Ceasar's Palace chips being used in
other casinos being a threat to Ceasar's
Palace's chip system does not
exist. As long as they keep taking in
collateral one-to-one, it
doesn't matter which casino bank holds
the collateral or where those
chips are used or where they leak to.
AR: This he argued, we could start to implement
by allowing Tales
(Canterbury system) to be traded with
Yawls (Whitstable).
JCT: Just like
Ceasar's Palace chips were accepted in
other casinos and Las Vegas stores simply
on the acknowledgment that
they were based on a common standard.
It doesn't matter in which the
positives and negatives are incurred to
obtain the chips. Those chips
can be used everywhere and the LETS outlet
in the area that needs more
liquidity is the outlet that will provide
it. It doesn't matter where
LETS Greenhours are issued as long as
they are all backed by the same
standard, in this case, the perfect Third-Millennium
standard of Time.
AR: This member saw no problem if this
type of intertrading led to
currency which was generated in one locality
or community, moving or
leaking to somewhere else globally. For
him, the notion of Local (in
the context of currency) carried little
meaning and the concept of
currency leaking was not one about which
we were ever able to reach an
understanding. The fact that we argued
that this would lead to a
replication of the imbalances experienced
as a consequence of the
present system did not seem to be seen
as of consequence to this
members view of new economics.
JCT: The present
system won't cause any consequences of
replication of imbalances for very long.
LETS works independently of
the present system.
You could use
a complex number analysis which I've never really
attempted with phasors before.
Let's imagine
that if the Employment-power phasor lies directly
on the real axis, there is 100% employment.
Full power.
If foreclosure
of life-support systems and extinction of employment
opportunities makes the phasor rotate
up 25 degrees, you have only 100
x cos25 degrees of power. 90% employment.
10% unemployment.
LETS takes the
unemployed power now wasted by having a phasor
with an imaginary component and converts
it to real power thus pushing
the phasor closer to the real axis. Should
LETS someday completely
supplement any remaining demand, full
employment would indicate that
the phasor had been pushed by LETS onto
the real axis.
This is not so
far-fetched as it sounds. As more and more people
go broke and cannot use usury money and
are pushed onto interest-free
money, LETS can handle an infinite demand.
When the usury accounts
excrete their last victims with no new
ones signing up, they will die
off. More and more LETS accounts used
everywhere can push the
Employment Power phasor onto the real
axis to provide full Global
employment, maximum industrial and ecological
capacity.
And remember
that Unemployment statistics take on a whole new
meaning when one considers not only the
Unemployed but also the mis-
employed.
Intelligence
agencies, Security agencies, Military agencies, are
mis-employed in keeping the debt victims
down.
Social Service
agencies, government agencies, charities are mis-
employed in helping the debt victims cope
with their fates.
Advertising agencies,
middlemen agencies are mis-employed raising
the price of all commerce to sell to an
insufficient market.
Legislatives,
Judiciaries, and Money-lenders are mis-employed
creating the victims of Nehemiah's "Crime
against Humanity:" Usury on
money. Loan-sharking.
Counting all
those mis-employed in the Money-lenders control
systems with the unemployed, I would guess
that real ecological
industrial production is done by a small
percentage of farmers and
industrial robots. The phasor might be
so close to the Imaginary axis
that there's really only 10% productive
employment and 90% useless
employment being output.
Aim the phasor
on full real employment and don't worry about any
imbalances.
AR: His primary concern was to encourage
a plentyful, interest free
currency, which is only part of what I
would see as LETS development.
JCT: We don't
want LETS "development" through struggle. We want
"instant upgrade." We want it run by professional
bankers whose
computer networks can easily handle stable
LETS accounts since they're
being handled side by side with the explosive
usury accounts. If
Rothschilds and Rockefeller banking networks
offer LETS as an
alternative for very profitable service
fees, I'd be the first to sign
up and retire from political debate.
AR: I think it unlikely that this type
of resistance to a registry
will be widespread - which is kind of
why I didnt go on about it
before - but also the sun was shining
& the flowers are just coming
out in the woods. Bye for now, Andy
JCT: Actually,
there is a difference between not supporting and
resisting. I've archived though I've never
read the registry stuff. I
don't follow any of the technical debates.
I know what I want. I know
that if Rothschild and Rockefeller families
let me instruct their
computer operators to turn up service
charges and turn interest to
zero on a new line of "Green" accounts,
it's done. There'd be line-ups
at the banks of people with no accounts
and in a few weeks
development, it would be done.
And I can understand
that if this guy thinks like me so far,
there must have been something about the
registry idea that was
limiting in scope or not relevant in the
global context. If something
is there to prevent leakage, then I understand
h is concern. Otherwise,
if registries work toward permitting trade
between non-regional
accounts, then I'm all for that velopment.
But again, I'm
concentrating on political rather than
grass-roots development.
No matter how
we cut it, when LETS gets really big, they're going
to cutting in on the loan-sharks' territory
and anyone who has seen
movies where petty loan-sharks are at
work might imagine a movie where
the International loan-sharks are at work.
There will will be a
political showdown with the International
Money-lenders and if we want
them to give up their 5-millennium-old
control of Earth's economic and
political control systems, the political
power has to guarantee
forgiveness and no revenge. I don't believe
they'd trust a bunch of
Third World victims to guarantee their
safety but they might trust a
high-tech political power. The fact I'm
still around 15 years after
picketing David Rockefeller with a "Bankers
Starve Third-World Babies"
placard at his 1983 then-ultra-secret
Bilderberger meeting of world
leaders getting their instructions could
be an indication that they
are ready to LETS take over.
I hope so and
soon. Earth's ecological extinction seems to be in
the balance unless they have better information
than I do. We must get
the Employment Phasor on full real power
if we're going to pull out of
this dive.
And yes, that's
why I believe that there is a hereafter and that
souls get to watch interesting stories
unfold.
Around the universe
may be millions of sentient civilizations and
those who evolve to the level of a technological
capacity to master
their environments have to use a medium
of exchange to obtain the
increment of association. Henry Ford organized
men to produce far more
than each could each produce. The increment
of association. Having
professionals for all needs is better
than everyone being a jack-of-
all-trades.
And all emerging
civilizations using money will be tricked into
trying to repay 11 when they only borrow
10 with all economic and
political power resting with the creditors
of governments. If one
debtor government or King acted up, the
others debtor Kings had to go
to war against him. The financial slavery
by an International Cartel
was complete and unbreakable. Until communications
are global and
instantaneous.
So around the
universe may be thousands of civilizations enslaved
to their debts who have obtained the technological
ability to destroy
themselves. These civilizations are faced,
like ours, with extinction
in so many environmental and military
ways by a lack of funding to get
to work saving themselves that it must
be of interest to souls out
there whether humans become extinct by
famine of money or whether we
prevail into a technological Heaven.
I would think
that the best entertainment in the cosmos would be
watching those civilizations right at
the brink of physical
destruction by an induced mass monetary
hypnosis.
999 out of 1000
people in the world think that promising to pay
back 11 when they only borrowed 10 is
sane. 999 out of 1000 have been
forced to borrow under these conditions
and have been programmed by
cognitive dissonance to refuse to accept
that it's a really really
insane thing for a community of participants
to do. Interest is the
mental trap people must escape. And most
people, especially those who
have spent the most time studying the
"insanity device" like financial
specialists, happen to end up the most
insane.
It is very rare
for a financial specialist to be able to break
the spell though the Money and Banking
professor who handed out my
LETS Banking Systems Engineering analysis
to his students seems to
indicate that even the most financially
brain-washed are being cured.
Even many LETSers
who don't see 100% Green trade are still under
the spell. It really is funny in a way.
Here are Earthlings faced with
environmental and social destruction because
of a scarcity of tokens
they could themselves create but who have
been fooled into thinking
that they must cope with their artificial
shortage of tokens by
denying themselves life-support unto the
point of extinction. It's a
fascinating historical point to be at.
Coming to a decision.
Technological Hell or Heaven on Earth.
So, yes, if I
was a soul out there with a search engine letting
me know where civilizations are reaching
these kind of crisis points
in dealing with their insane 11:10 slavery,
they're the ones I'd spend
my time watching because you can bet on
them. Humans have free will.
God will not interfere. It's his casino
but the games are straight.
They will survive their usury or they
will not. And I can bet with
other souls on it.
Of course, in
Heaven, we're just betting time serving each other.
"If the shark catches the dolphin, you'll
climb the coconut tree to
get us lunch and if the dolphin escapes,
I'll get us lunch."
Similarly, "If Earth beats its insufficiency
of tokens to survive,
I'll pick up tomorrow's manna from Heaven.
If Earth destroys itself,
you pick up the manna. If a comet hits
first, bets are off." The other
soul could say: "Sounds good but they're
already so deep in trouble
that I wants 7:1 odds. If Earth survives,
you pick up the manna all
next week."
Usury, the cancerous
financial slavery gamble every civilization
that uses money must undergo has always
resulted in a war between the
Keepers and the Abolitionists of interest.
Earth has often had
national civilizations which rid themselves
of the usury plague for
centuries but most often it breaks out
and takes control everywhere
until revolution or destruction occur.
With instantaneous global
control is available, bankers used it
first. Finally, such technical
private control becomes available to all
and we can bank our own
games. The war to take control of our
own destines is on.
But while governments
destroy the medical life-support systems,
let infra-structure fall into disrepair,
that's when the action gets
hot and crime and suffering become the
news. And if all the crime and
suffering going on around the world serve
as our entertainment on TV
today, I'm sure civilizations undergoing
their usury test would prove
the same entertaining value to souls watching
Universe news.
Besides, if the
chemicals destroying the ozone layer have pushed
the odds of survival too high, I'd think
most of the spectator souls
may have already left to watch other less
certain games.
So, Andy. I appreciate
your concerns as a hands-on promoter. But
I like everything this guy says. I wouldn't
care if an Ottawa LETS
farmer sent over 1000 Hours worth of wheat
and have Canterbury LETS in
the negative till whenever. Fears of leakage
are fears which exist
only between small individual systems
but which cannot exits in one
large one. People who see this bigger
picture cannot be persuaded to
build in design changes to what we perceive
to be a perfect system.
Besides, it is
inevitable that poorer regions will be in the
negative for years while richer regions
will be in the positive and
there's nothing ethically wrong with such
leakage which must be
addressed. Isaiah 55: "You who have no
money, come, buy and eat."
Actually, one
inherent feature of LETS that is rarely mentioned
is that there is no re-payment schedule.
Imagine the peace of a debt
which makes no demands, only what you
can. That's why LETS bank can
offer Green credit to the starving millions
in the Third World and the
Usury bank cannot. If a child were to
consume 1 Greenyear of credit
until the age of maturity and owe 15,
20, 25 or 30 Greenyears of
credit when he comes on line after a good
upbringing with all the
advantages, it would take 15 or 40 Greenyears
of credit which are
winnable in a fair economic competition
to repay their Baby debt and
start amassing Hours for retirement.
Some will die
negative, cases of pure leakage. Some will die
positive. Cases of leakage recovery. The
point is that for LETS to be
pure, there has to always be sufficient
liquidity to satisfy local
demand no matter how much that area may
be in the negative.
And the policy
of "no-payment-schedule" is simply betting that
future generations with maximum technology
will be able to make an
Hour of their time provide far more to
you than your Hour of time
provided to them.
As usual, the
world has been turned backwards to fight for more
money to buy food. Strikers seek more
money for life-support when they
should seek more life-support for their
money. LETS provides more and
more food for their money.
So, I'd suggest
you see what about the registries this guy
resisted. I know I've always resisted
doing computer entry just to
know how we're doing in favor of issuing
tokens and estimating it's
velocity with no central overhead needed.
Even though doing it totally
by computer entry was the way of sliding
a new 1/s money against
regular money into circulation in computer
disguise. But they're so
big and well known now that it's time
to take off the computer
disguise and admit that LETS is a legitimate
token system whether it
be in paper, metal or computer credits.
That's why I'm
so happy that the Ottawa LETS have changed their
name from a Local Employment-Trading System
to a Local Employment And
Trading System: LEATS. To make sure that
undesirables are not using
Greendollars, their charter specifically
bans the anonymous paper or
metal media. The charter also bans trade
with outsiders. I think these
modifications will prove to be quite mortal
handicaps which, sadly,
they're hoping to persuade other Ottawa
area
systems to weaken
themselves with.
If someone thinks
their LETSystem is too big, or they don't
approve of cross-border trading, or they
want to know who is using
Green do trade for what, then Ottawa LEATS
is the group to show you
how to impede growth.
I think it's
important that LETS use every available medium for
its tokens, including email. I think it's
important that no barriers
be set up as long as everyone's tokens
are worth time.
Remember the
article pointing out that Austria and Italy were
doing cross-border trading with their
local currencies. Tales
(Canterbury system) will be accepted for
Yawls (Whitstable) naturally.
Talk of allowing it is also talk of disallowing
it. It can't be
stopped so why fight it?
I hope a way
can be found to cooperate with this guy and I'd be
curious what he found worth resisting
about registries.