Date: Tue Apr 15 07:21:50 1997
Subject: TURMEL: LETS registries and leakage?

From: (Andy Ryrie)
Date: Mon Apr 14 17:41:24 1997
Subject: Registry debate
To: (Econ-LETS)

AR: The major obstacle came from a member who argued from a
perspective which has been greatly influenced by Rudolph Steiners
work on economics. His notion is that LETSystems should aim to develop
into one global currency.
     JCT: Since the Hounslow LETS actually uses a currency showing
that 1 Hour is worth 6 Cranes or 6 Pounds, and since all LETSes are
similarly convertible into the universal standard of Hour time, LETS
already is a Global currency. They just aren't trading between each
other yet.
     It's just like many casinos in the area. Their tokens are all
worth the same hourly value but they just haven't agreed to accept
each others chips between casinos yet though users in the real world
have no aversion to accepting Ceasar's Palace chips even though they
play at the Taj Mahal.
     The very idea of too many of Ceasar's Palace chips being used in
other casinos being a threat to Ceasar's Palace's chip system does not
exist. As long as they keep taking in collateral one-to-one, it
doesn't matter which casino bank holds the collateral or where those
chips are used or where they leak to.

AR: This he argued, we could start to implement by allowing Tales
(Canterbury system) to be traded with Yawls (Whitstable).
     JCT: Just like Ceasar's Palace chips were accepted in
other casinos and Las Vegas stores simply on the acknowledgment that
they were based on a common standard. It doesn't matter in which the
positives and negatives are incurred to obtain the chips. Those chips
can be used everywhere and the LETS outlet in the area that needs more
liquidity is the outlet that will provide it. It doesn't matter where
LETS Greenhours are issued as long as they are all backed by the same
standard, in this case, the perfect Third-Millennium standard of Time.

AR: This member saw no problem if this type of intertrading led to
currency which was generated in one locality or community, moving or
leaking to somewhere else globally. For him, the notion of Local (in
the context of currency) carried little meaning and the concept of
currency leaking was not one about which we were ever able to reach an
understanding. The fact that we argued that this would lead to a
replication of the imbalances experienced as a consequence of the
present system did not seem to be seen as of consequence to this
members view of new economics.
     JCT: The present system won't cause any consequences of
replication of imbalances for very long. LETS works independently of
the present system.
     You could use a complex number analysis which I've never really
attempted with phasors before.
     Let's imagine that if the Employment-power phasor lies directly
on the real axis, there is 100% employment. Full power.
     If foreclosure of life-support systems and extinction of employment
opportunities makes the phasor rotate up 25 degrees, you have only 100
x cos25 degrees of power. 90% employment. 10% unemployment.
     LETS takes the unemployed power now wasted by having a phasor
with an imaginary component and converts it to real power thus pushing
the phasor closer to the real axis. Should LETS someday completely
supplement any remaining demand, full employment would indicate that
the phasor had been pushed by LETS onto the real axis.
     This is not so far-fetched as it sounds. As more and more people
go broke and cannot use usury money and are pushed onto interest-free
money, LETS can handle an infinite demand. When the usury accounts
excrete their last victims with no new ones signing up, they will die
off. More and more LETS accounts used everywhere can push the
Employment Power phasor onto the real axis to provide full Global
employment, maximum industrial and ecological capacity.
     And remember that Unemployment statistics take on a whole new
meaning when one considers not only the Unemployed but also the mis-
     Intelligence agencies, Security agencies, Military agencies, are
mis-employed in keeping the debt victims down.
     Social Service agencies, government agencies, charities are mis-
employed in helping the debt victims cope with their fates.
     Advertising agencies, middlemen agencies are mis-employed raising
the price of all commerce to sell to an insufficient market.
     Legislatives, Judiciaries, and Money-lenders are mis-employed
creating the victims of Nehemiah's "Crime against Humanity:" Usury on
money. Loan-sharking.
     Counting all those mis-employed in the Money-lenders control
systems with the unemployed, I would guess that real ecological
industrial production is done by a small percentage of farmers and
industrial robots. The phasor might be so close to the Imaginary axis
that there's really only 10% productive employment and 90% useless
employment being output.
     Aim the phasor on full real employment and don't worry about any

AR: His primary concern was to encourage a plentyful, interest free
currency, which is only part of what I would see as LETS development.
     JCT: We don't want LETS "development" through struggle. We want
"instant upgrade." We want it run by professional bankers whose
computer networks can easily handle stable LETS accounts since they're
being handled side by side with the explosive usury accounts. If
Rothschilds and Rockefeller banking networks offer LETS as an
alternative for very profitable service fees, I'd be the first to sign
up and retire from political debate.

AR: I think it unlikely that this type of resistance to a registry
will be widespread - which is kind of why I didnt go on about it
before - but also the sun was shining & the flowers are just coming
out in the woods. Bye for now, Andy
     JCT: Actually, there is a difference between not supporting and
resisting. I've archived though I've never read the registry stuff. I
don't follow any of the technical debates. I know what I want. I know
that if Rothschild and Rockefeller families let me instruct their
computer operators to turn up service charges and turn interest to
zero on a new line of "Green" accounts, it's done. There'd be line-ups
at the banks of people with no accounts and in a few weeks
development, it would be done.
     And I can understand that if this guy thinks like me so far,
there must have been something about the registry idea that was
limiting in scope or not relevant in the global context. If something
is there to prevent leakage, then I understand his concern. Otherwise,
if registries work toward permitting trade between non-regional
accounts, then I'm all for that velopment. But again, I'm
concentrating on political rather than grass-roots development.
     No matter how we cut it, when LETS gets really big, they're going
to cutting in on the loan-sharks' territory and anyone who has seen
movies where petty loan-sharks are at work might imagine a movie where
the International loan-sharks are at work. There will will be a
political showdown with the International Money-lenders and if we want
them to give up their 5-millennium-old control of Earth's economic and
political control systems, the political power has to guarantee
forgiveness and no revenge. I don't believe they'd trust a bunch of
Third World victims to guarantee their safety but they might trust a
high-tech political power. The fact I'm still around 15 years after
picketing David Rockefeller with a "Bankers Starve Third-World Babies"
placard at his 1983 then-ultra-secret Bilderberger meeting of world
leaders getting their instructions could be an indication that they
are ready to LETS take over.
     I hope so and soon. Earth's ecological extinction seems to be in
the balance unless they have better information than I do. We must get
the Employment Phasor on full real power if we're going to pull out of
this dive.
     And yes, that's why I believe that there is a hereafter and that
souls get to watch interesting stories unfold.
     Around the universe may be millions of sentient civilizations and
those who evolve to the level of a technological capacity to master
their environments have to use a medium of exchange to obtain the
increment of association. Henry Ford organized men to produce far more
than each could each produce. The increment of association. Having
professionals for all needs is better than everyone being a jack-of-
     And all emerging civilizations using money will be tricked into
trying to repay 11 when they only borrow 10 with all economic and
political power resting with the creditors of governments. If one
debtor government or King acted up, the others debtor Kings had to go
to war against him. The financial slavery by an International Cartel
was complete and unbreakable. Until communications are global and
     So around the universe may be thousands of civilizations enslaved
to their debts who have obtained the technological ability to destroy
themselves. These civilizations are faced, like ours, with extinction
in so many environmental and military ways by a lack of funding to get
to work saving themselves that it must be of interest to souls out
there whether humans become extinct by famine of money or whether we
prevail into a technological Heaven.
     I would think that the best entertainment in the cosmos would be
watching those civilizations right at the brink of physical
destruction by an induced mass monetary hypnosis.
     999 out of 1000 people in the world think that promising to pay
back 11 when they only borrowed 10 is sane. 999 out of 1000 have been
forced to borrow under these conditions and have been programmed by
cognitive dissonance to refuse to accept that it's a really really
insane thing for a community of participants to do. Interest is the
mental trap people must escape. And most people, especially those who
have spent the most time studying the "insanity device" like financial
specialists, happen to end up the most insane.
     It is very rare for a financial specialist to be able to break
the spell though the Money and Banking professor who handed out my
LETS Banking Systems Engineering analysis to his students seems to
indicate that even the most financially brain-washed are being cured.
     Even many LETSers who don't see 100% Green trade are still under
the spell. It really is funny in a way. Here are Earthlings faced with
environmental and social destruction because of a scarcity of tokens
they could themselves create but who have been fooled into thinking
that they must cope with their artificial shortage of tokens by
denying themselves life-support unto the point of extinction. It's a
fascinating historical point to be at. Coming to a decision.
Technological Hell or Heaven on Earth.
     So, yes, if I was a soul out there with a search engine letting
me know where civilizations are reaching these kind of crisis points
in dealing with their insane 11:10 slavery, they're the ones I'd spend
my time watching because you can bet on them. Humans have free will.
God will not interfere. It's his casino but the games are straight.
They will survive their usury or they will not. And I can bet with
other souls on it.
     Of course, in Heaven, we're just betting time serving each other.
"If the shark catches the dolphin, you'll climb the coconut tree to
get us lunch and if the dolphin escapes, I'll get us lunch."
Similarly, "If Earth beats its insufficiency of tokens to survive,
I'll pick up tomorrow's manna from Heaven. If Earth destroys itself,
you pick up the manna. If a comet hits first, bets are off." The other
soul could say: "Sounds good but they're already so deep in trouble
that I wants 7:1 odds. If Earth survives, you pick up the manna all
next week."
     Usury, the cancerous financial slavery gamble every civilization
that uses money must undergo has always resulted in a war between the
Keepers and the Abolitionists of interest. Earth has often had
national civilizations which rid themselves of the usury plague for
centuries but most often it breaks out and takes control everywhere
until revolution or destruction occur. With instantaneous global
control is available, bankers used it first. Finally, such technical
private control becomes available to all and we can bank our own
games. The war to take control of our own destines is on.
     But while governments destroy the medical life-support systems,
let infra-structure fall into disrepair, that's when the action gets
hot and crime and suffering become the news. And if all the crime and
suffering going on around the world serve as our entertainment on TV
today, I'm sure civilizations undergoing their usury test would prove
the same entertaining value to souls watching Universe news.
     Besides, if the chemicals destroying the ozone layer have pushed
the odds of survival too high, I'd think most of the spectator souls
may have already left to watch other less certain games.

     So, Andy. I appreciate your concerns as a hands-on promoter. But
I like everything this guy says. I wouldn't care if an Ottawa LETS
farmer sent over 1000 Hours worth of wheat and have Canterbury LETS in
the negative till whenever. Fears of leakage are fears which exist
only between small individual systems but which cannot exits in one
large one. People who see this bigger picture cannot be persuaded to
build in design changes to what we perceive to be a perfect system.
     Besides, it is inevitable that poorer regions will be in the
negative for years while richer regions will be in the positive and
there's nothing ethically wrong with such leakage which must be
addressed. Isaiah 55: "You who have no money, come, buy and eat."
     Actually, one inherent feature of LETS that is rarely mentioned
is that there is no re-payment schedule. Imagine the peace of a debt
which makes no demands, only what you can. That's why LETS bank can
offer Green credit to the starving millions in the Third World and the
Usury bank cannot. If a child were to consume 1 Greenyear of credit
until the age of maturity and owe 15, 20, 25 or 30 Greenyears of
credit when he comes on line after a good upbringing with all the
advantages, it would take 15 or 40 Greenyears of credit which are
winnable in a fair economic competition to repay their Baby debt and
start amassing Hours for retirement.
     Some will die negative, cases of pure leakage. Some will die
positive. Cases of leakage recovery. The point is that for LETS to be
pure, there has to always be sufficient liquidity to satisfy local
demand no matter how much that area may be in the negative.
     And the policy of "no-payment-schedule" is simply betting that
future generations with maximum technology will be able to make an
Hour of their time provide far more to you than your Hour of time
provided to them.
     As usual, the world has been turned backwards to fight for more
money to buy food. Strikers seek more money for life-support when they
should seek more life-support for their money. LETS provides more and
more food for their money.
     So, I'd suggest you see what about the registries this guy
resisted. I know I've always resisted doing computer entry just to
know how we're doing in favor of issuing tokens and estimating it's
velocity with no central overhead needed. Even though doing it totally
by computer entry was the way of sliding a new 1/s money against
regular money into circulation in computer disguise. But they're so
big and well known now that it's time to take off the computer
disguise and admit that LETS is a legitimate token system whether it
be in paper, metal or computer credits.
     That's why I'm so happy that the Ottawa LETS have changed their
name from a Local Employment-Trading System to a Local Employment And
Trading System: LEATS. To make sure that undesirables are not using
Greendollars, their charter specifically bans the anonymous paper or
metal media. The charter also bans trade with outsiders. I think these
modifications will prove to be quite mortal handicaps which, sadly,
they're hoping to persuade other Ottawa area systems to weaken
themselves with.
     If someone thinks their LETSystem is too big, or they don't
approve of cross-border trading, or they want to know who is using
Green do trade for what, then Ottawa LEATS is the group to show you
how to impede growth.
     I think it's important that LETS use every available medium for
its tokens, including email. I think it's important that no barriers
be set up as long as everyone's tokens are worth time.
     Remember the article pointing out that Austria and Italy were
doing cross-border trading with their local currencies. Tales
(Canterbury system) will be accepted for Yawls (Whitstable) naturally.
Talk of allowing it is also talk of disallowing it. It can't be
stopped so why fight it?
     I hope a way can be found to cooperate with this guy and I'd be
curious what he found worth resisting about registries.

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