TURMEL: Jesus Christ Bankfighter Stream #3 72k

Subject: Re: TURMEL: Why did Christ speak in parables? ANSWER

     The challenge was:
     Christ said:
     "I speak in parables because ""To everyone who has abundance
will more be given but from him who has no abundance, even what
he has will be taken away.""
     What is the differential equation?
     What is a one word description?

     Where "B" is the original amount, "i" is the rate of
increase and "t" is time, the differential equation for the
phrase is:
---  = i * B

     The d stands for "delta" or "change."
     So "dB" is the amount of change in the Balance.
     So "dt" is the amount of change in the time.
     So the rate of change of your bank balance over time equals
"i * B," the interest rate times the balance. Pretty obvious and
simple, actually.

     Stephen Froelich came the closest with:
                   ---  = (B-c) * B
     He determined that the structure of the solution was that of
a first order differential equation where the rate of change of
the balance was a percentage of the balance and only missed that
the factor was "i" rather than "B-c."

     Stephen Froehlich <froehlik@physics.utexas.edu> had written
that for i = 10% and balance x:

>dx/dt = .1x
>dx/.1x = dt
>t = 10ln(x) + c
>.1*t - c = ln(x)
>x = exp(.1*t - c)
>  = C * exp(.1*t)
     I agreed with every step but the last and said the "c"
couldn't be moved out of the exponent like that. Of course, he is
correct if C=exp(c) which is a constant and equal to 1 if c=o.

     Acceptable one word descriptions of the system would have
     "Usury" system
     "Interest" system
     "Loan-sharking" system
     "Money-lending" system
     "Banking" system

    Now everybody's heard the lament "The rich get richer and
the poor get poorer." It is the one inexorable law of economics
and that "gives more to those who have abundance and takes away
from those who have no abundance." Think about it. Those with
abundance get richer and those with no abundance get poorer. That
ugly rule of our world's civilization is why he spoke in
parables so the Masters wouldn't understand.

     If the interest rate is 10% and the time is 1 year and
     a) your balance is +100, the change in your balance over 1
year is 10% of +100 which equals +10 for a new balance of +110.
     b) your balance is -100, the change in your balance over 1
year is 10% of -100 which equals -10 for a new balance of -110.

     So to those who have +100 abundance will be given 10 more
and from those who have -100 abundance will be taken away 10.

     As Melvin Klassen previously explained, the equation for the
end result is exp(x) where x>0 and more precisely exp(it).

     Exp(it) means that your balance will exponentially double
and double in time. In the previous example, you deposit +100

After 1 year,  you'll have 10.00 more for a balance of 110.00
After 2 years, you'll have 11.00 more for a balance of 121.00
After 3 years, you'll have 12.10 more for a balance of 133.10
After 4 years, you'll have 13.31 more for a balance of 146.41.
After 5 years, you'll have 14.64 more for a balance of 160.05.
After 6 years, you'll have 16.00 more for a balance of 176.05.
After 7 years, you'll have 17.60 more for a balance of 194.01.
After 8 years, you'll have 19.40 more for a balance of 213.81.

     To those who have abundance will more be given.

     If you borrow -100.

After 1 year,  you'll owe -10.00 more for a balance of -110.00
After 2 years, you'll owe -11.00 more for a balance of -121.00
After 3 years, you'll owe -12.10 more for a balance of -133.10
After 4 years, you'll owe -13.31 more for a balance of -146.41.
After 5 years, you'll owe -14.64 more for a balance of -160.05.
After 6 years, you'll owe -16.00 more for a balance of -176.05.
After 7 years, you'll owe -17.60 more for a balance of -194.01.
After 8 years, you'll owe -19.40 more for a balance of -213.81.

     To those who have no abundance, even what they have will be
taken away.

     This demonstrates quite well what's called the "rule of 72."
     Divide 72 by the percent interest and that's approximately
the number of years it will take to double, and double, and
double, etc. That's what's called an exponential
     At 10%, it should take about 7.2 years to double, as shown.
     At 5%,  it should take about 14.4 years to double.
     At 24%, it should take about 3 years to double.

     So Christ said:
     "I speak in parables because "Interest makes the rich get
richer and the poor get poorer." So Christ certainly was in
agreement with the saints in the Old Testament who found usury
the greatest sin in the Bible, the proverbial Yoke of Oppression.
I can't think of anything more unfair that taking subsistence
from the poor to give to the rich who already have more than
enough. Can anyone find anything meritorious about such a system?

     The differential equation can be converted to the Laplace
Transformation which equals 1/(s-i). With this Laplace
Transformation, we can draw the control system, the electrical
blue-print of the system Christ was talking about. Any third-year
engineering student could draw the control system given the
Laplace Transformation.

     I'm going to try my best to draw the control system and
explain how it works for you.

                    CONTROL SYSTEM FOR  -----

                       | Interest = 10% |
                  |<---|   Rate         |<---------|
                  |    |----------------|          |
                  |                                | Old
                  |                   |<-----------| Balance
                  |                   |            |
                + |                 + |            |
           |------------|       |------------|     |
  Input  + |  Addition  |     + |  Addition  | New |
---------->|    Node    |------>|    Node    |--------------->
           |------------|       |------------| Balance

     Your $100 volt pulse is the input to the first addition
node. Added to it is the interest voltage from the last balance
which, to start, was 10% of zero. The new net $100 pulse enters
the second addition node where it also is added to the old
balance, still zero, to push the new balance up to $100 volts.

     Next year, with no new pulse at the input, added to this
zero voltage is 10% interest, a pulse of 10 volts. The 10 volt
pulse goes into the second addition node where it is added to the
old balance, 100, to push the new balance to 110.
     Cycle after cycle with no new inputs, you have the
exponential growth exp(it) which grows as the above series. It
acts just like bringing a microphone up to a speaker. The sound
from the speaker is picked up by the microphone and fed back to
make the sound out of the speaker louder which is picked up and
fed back to make it louder until you blow your speaker. Having an
unstable positive feedback loop built into a system makes that
system unstable.
     Negative feedback loops where the feedback from the previous
balance is added are very useful in stabilizing systems away from
error but positive feedback always makes the error grow.
     A physical example of negative feedback, positive feedback
and no feedback follows:
     If you have a bowl and you put a ball in it and then give
the ball a little shove, it will travel up one side, gravity will
bring it down and it will rock back and forth until it settles
back to the middle. That's how engineers use negative feedback to
bring back things which have been pushed out of normal operation
back to normal.
     If you turn the bowl upside down and put the ball at the
top, one small push and the gravity will make the ball fall
faster and faster. That's unstable.
     If you put the ball on a platform and give it a push,
without friction, it will just continue in rolling steady state.
     Both zero and negative feedback are unacceptable while
positive feedback is always unstable.
     Engineers say that systems are stable if the pole of the
system is in the left-hand plane or on the origin but unstable if
the pole is in the right-hand plane.
     Knowing that the Laplace Transform of the system is 1/(s-i),
the denominator is zero when s=+i and therefore, the pole is on
the right-hand side of the origin, hence unstable.

     What is most interesting is that the differential equation
given by Christ as the reason he spoke in parables represents
your bank account in a usury-banking system!
     Imagine, Christ spoke in parables because of the usury
banking system which was ruling the world in his day as it does
in ours. It is the system upon which the Master-Slave
relationship is perpetuated. There are the Masters who collect
interest and there are the Debt Slaves who pay it.

     You'll notice now that the usury differential equation is in
both the parables of the Talents and Minas where the master
enforces usury, both slaves stiff him for his interest and are
punished, one by being thrown into the alley of poverty where men
weep and gnash their teeth and the other by being executed.
     Most misinterpretations say the master who is committing the
sin of usury is rightfully executing the slothful slave who
returned only the principal of his money with no interest when
all he had to do was take the easy way out and deposit his
Master's money with the bankers to get his Master his interest.
So the reason the story hasn't been excised from the Bible is
because the Masters have misinterpreted this parable thinking it says
it's okay for them to exact usury when in reality it is the Debt
Slaves rising up against the system that is oppressing them. .

     I'd point out two of the most important passages of the
Bible which have been excised or changed.
     In Nehemiah, when the people were complaining about the
mortgages, taxes and slavery, Nehemiah told the rulers:
     1) "You are exacting usury.
     2) Let the exacting of usury stop.
     3) Give them back your illicit spoils."

     Nehemiah points out the problem, the solution and the
     But new versions of the Bible only have
     1) "You are exacting usury.
     3) Give them back your illicit spoils."
     They have dropped the solution. Even if they give back the
illicit spoils but don't stop the drain from the poor to the
rich, the problem will again grow out of hand.
     This is the greatest deletion that the Masters' publishing
houses have done to our latest Bibles.

     The second major change is in the Lord's prayer where the
Masters' publishing houses have gotten people to think that it
     "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have
trespassed against us."
     The true version of the Lord's Prayer in older Bibles is
     "Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors."
     That's a major difference. When I've lent money to a debtor,
I don't consider that a trespass against me.
     And I do consider a forgiveness of debt as the key to Heaven
on Earth.
     After all, Christ did say "Lend expecting nothing in
return," so how could those he lent to now be considered to have
trespassed against him.

     If people accept that "To everyone who has abundance will
more be given but from him who has no abundance, even what he has
will be taken away" means "usury" or "loan-sharking," Christ's
assault on the money-lenders in the temple makes a lot more

     So remember that interest, which takes from the poor who
have no spare to give to rich who have more than they need, is
the greatest evil afflicting mankind and is responsible for all
the crime, suicide, desperation, that we see in the world today.

     People have asked what this has to do with taxes. Our
governments are Debt Slaves to the Master Bankers and collect
interest from us to pay them interest when they could run the
money system themselves and not collect those taxes to service
     And interest-free banking system would look like a Poker
chip bank. People would pledge their collateral, houses, oil,
wheat, services, and get chips with which to do trade.
     In a Toronto Sun article dated Oct. 4, 1993, Walter Stewart
points out the problem and the solution:
    "The way it works today, almost all of our money supply is
created by the banks as interest-bearing debt, with them on the
receiving end.
     We can't solve the deficit crisis thus created by slashing
expenditures or raising taxes, because these measures bring the
economy crashing to a halt.
     The idea is that central governments should take back from the
banks the crucial role of creating money, thus restoring sovereignty
to the state.
     The government should direct the Bank of Canada to issue credit
at low- or no-interest for building capital projects. This is what the
Bank of Canada did during World War II with great success.
     The solution, then, appears to be to substitute low- or no-
interest public funds for high-interest private money.
     Various levels of government could borrow this newly-created
money to retire high-interest loans."

     He also noted that Guernsey Island uses their own interest-
free money system and have no unemployment, low inflation, low
taxes. Pretty good proof of what life could be like without
$1,800 Billions paid in debt service by our governments (Fraser
     There are also several historical examples of government use
of interest-free currency. Early Rome used Aes Grave copper
currency, the British used Tallies between 1100 and 1700,
Colonial America used Continentals which were praised by Benjamin
Franklin, Lincoln used "Greenbacks." These were successful
government issued currencies.
     Of course, another interest-free non-government currency was
North American Indian "wampum" where each Indian could issue his
own promissory bead worth a hide or a horse. This is how the
Greendollar LETS system works. Each member has the right to issue
Greendollars to start a transaction by going negative while the
goods or service provider goes positive. The working model is the
Greendollar system which is now spreading around the world.

     There are many Greendollar LETS sites:
http://titsoc.soc.titech.ac.jp/titsoc/higuchi-lab/icm/index.html Ithaca

     Software is available at

     There are several LETS newsgroups on GreenNet and the other
affiliated APC hosts, Pegasus, IGC, Web, etc in other countries:
lets.oz         Australia
lets.uk         UK
lets.can        Canada
lcs.letsgo      (write-only: contact lcs@mars.ark.com (Michael Linton))
lcs.letsoft     software discussion
lets.women      (moderated: contact kaarenp@peg.apc.org for details)

     You can also join the econ-lets digest by sending the
          subscribe econ-lets  <your name>
to:       mailbase@mailbase.ac.uk

     Finally, Christ does tell us how abundance should be dealt
with in Paul Corr II 8:14.
     "Your abundance should at the present time be a supply for
their want so that later, their abundance may be a supply for
your want. In that way, he who gathers much doesn't have too much
and he who gathers little doesn't have too little."
     Sure sounds friendlier than:
     "To those who have abundance will more be given and from
those who have no abundance, even what they have will be taken

     So it was given unto his disciples to understand how the
secret of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth was the elimination of
loan-shark usury but the Masters would never understand.

     I think it's for that reason Christ spoke in parables so
that the Masters would be forever "hearing without hearing and
seeing without seeing because their hearts have grown cold."
Unfortunately, many of the Debt Slaves also cannot hear or see.
     This is easily understood when one understands that usury
creates a kind of musical chairs game with money. Everybody
borrows 10 and everybody owes 11 and not everyone can survive and
someone must always get knocked out of this elimination game.
     An elimination game is a "death-gamble" while the French word
for "death" is "mort" and for "gamble" is "gage." Mort-gage is a
death-gamble caused by usury on the contract.
     If anyone has ever played musical chairs, they know that it
is counter-productive to help anybody else. The same applies to
musical chairs with money.
     When the butcher's competition across town goes under, he
cheers. Not because the other butcher's kids are now going hungry
but rather that his children are not.
     Playing musical chairs with money does make men's hearts
grow cold and once used to the game, they can never believe that
it's possible to have a game where there's a chair for everybody.
     But just as adding sufficient chairs to the game of musical
chairs and making the number of chairs equal to the number of
players would make the game much less vicious, so too,
eliminating the interest and making the debt equal the money
borrowed would also make the economic game much less vicious.
     And that's what all the reports on LETS have found. People
feel "secure and love the town I'm living in."

     So, a new puzzle which should be solvable by anyone.
Starting with the differential equation for the problem law of
abundance, how would it be changed to give us the differential
equation for Christ's law of abundance? It's simpler than you

     In my next post, I'll show the control system for the
Christ's system and show how it happens to be the same control
system for the LETSystem. It would explain why poor people are
calling it a "life-boat" in these rough economic times.

     Back in Christ's day, there existed a world-wide gold
bullion cartel of money-lenders which ruled from Asia to Great
Britain. Those bankers ruled the whole world through their
slavery system.
     If a ruler gave them a hard time, they financed his enemies
and he was deposed.
     It's sad to think that our high-tech world is still ruled by
the same Debt Slavery system from antiquity.
     The failure of civilizations to realize that you can't pay
11 when you only got 10 is the saddest sight possible. A system
of taking from the poor to give to the rich is still going on and
encircles the whole globe.
     It's quite a realization to think that the International
Bankers are the current Masters while Kings and Presidents to
Judges and Bailiffs are nothing but lackeys to the Money
     And they are so powerful that the only way to save ourselves
will be with their permission.
     That's why I think a policy of Amnesty, Anonymity from the
lowliest Third World torturer to the highest First World banker
with the financial Security of the Greendollar credit line is the
only way out.

     I noticed a real miserable episode recently. Someone posted
a few short pleasant thoughts relating to the Bible and the boo-
birds came to life. "Take it somewhere else," "stop wasting our
band-width," was their common refrain.

     If this band-width they're so concerned about conserving
were needed for their more important thoughts, I might understand
but they don't contribute very much other than carping themselves
and their discourteous comments chased that correspondent away.
Anyone who enjoyed a short break from unpleasant topics now has
to looking for them elsewhere. It's just their contribution to
making everyone's life as miserable as their own.

     These arm-chair quarterbacks object to anyone saying "I
believe this" or " I have done that". Having offered nothing
themselves, they think it's boasting. Nevertheless, I'm going to
take some band-width to pay homage to Jesus and if the boo-birds
don't like, let them go carp elsewhere.

     I'd always suspected that Christ was not some poor dude
rising up against the "yoke of oppression." Lots of slaves have
done that.  against the "mort-gage" "death-gamble". For his
sacrifice to be as spectacular as his disciples found it to be, I
always figured he had to have been a rich guy who chose to go
with the debt slaves rather than the debt masters. Usury, Yoke of
Oppression, Genocide by poverty.

     There were some clues as to his wealth. He never seemed to
need for money. He had a one-piece robe, so valuable that they
gambled for it rather than cut it up. But that's small potatoes.

     Imagine you're born on a night when a super nova becomes
visible right over your place. Three kings happen to be in your
neighbourhood and think that makes you special. They compete with
each other to load you down with gold and valuable gifts. Dad
invests it for you at the prevailing 30+ % interest rate making
your trust fund double every couple of years. How rich do you
think you will be when you come of age? If you get the trust fund
when you turn 30, it will have doubled at least 12 times and been
magnified 4,000 times! The "miracle" of compound interest.

     In 1992, books on the Dead Sea Scrolls started coming out
and I read "Jesus and the riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls by
Barbara Thiering. She mentions that not only was Mary from the
line of David but so was Joseph, a pretender to the throne from
the line of David. But Jesus was technically disqualified from
being the Crown Prince because Joseph and Mary were living
common-law at the time and inheritance rules were pretty tough in
those days. So even though he no father listed on his birth
certificate, he had some claim to the throne. Quite a story.

     It would explain why Herod, who wasn't Jewish, was so
unhappy to find out about a birth from the line of David and his
slaughter of the young lads from Bethlehem trying to get rid of a
real pretender to his throne. It would also explain his affluence
and his understanding of how usury works from the point of view
of the rich.

     How he came to hang around with poor people and preach
against the debt yoke that was oppressing them, I can't say but I
do give him credit for accurately stating usury's differential
equations and knowing what he was talking about when he kept
condemning interest rates. Interest rates are mentioned four
times in the New Testament: "To those who have abundance will
more be given and to those who have no abundance, even what they
have will be taken away."

     Interest gives more to those who have spare and takes away
from those who don't have enough. The rich get richer, the poor
get poorer. Reverse Robin Hood. Hardly something you'd expect him
to be in favor of. There's good argument he was against taking
from the poor to give to the rich: "You're abundance should at
the present time be a supply for their want so that their
abundance may later be a supply for your want. In that way, he
who gathers much doesn't have too much and he who gathers little
doesn't have too little. That there may be equality."

     It's interesting that it does not talk of equality of wealth
but equality of opportunity with charitable use of the abundance
boiling down to "Lend expecting nothing in return."

     So here's the Crown prince stirring up the debt slaves with
talk of "forgiving our debts as we forgive our debtors" (the real
words in the Our Father prayer, not "trespasses," a major
distortion). It must have really upset the Money Masters of that
time. They tried to buy him off with the Crown but he refused and
led a protest against the money-lenders. This was not Jesus with
a whip busting up a few tables as often depicted. In those days,
when usurers foreclosed on the house, they foreclosed on the
owners and their families and had bouncers to handle their slaves
and private prisons. Either Christ really beat all those bouncers
with a whip by himself or he led a general uprising of the debt
slaves and quite a riot took place.

     Within days, the premier warrior for abolition of the
mortgage death-gamble was sold out, tried and crucified. The
Crown prince was put to death for assault on the usurers which
shows where the hidden power really was and still remains.

     He was not a revolutionary in an ordinary war. He died in
the war to end all wars, ARMAGEDDON, the primordial conflict
between the Keepers and the Abolitionists of the mortgage death-
gamble. He had the choice of being king of the Moneylenders and
instead chose to give up his life as a message of opposition to
the yoke of mort-gage oppression making his sacrifice one of the
most selfless humanitarian gestures in the history of social

     Finally, I'm disappointed that the engineer from McGill
couldn't figure out the equation even though the Laplace
Transformation gave him all the information he needed. Though he
might want to denigrate my Carleton University, the fact remains
that he couldn't even handle some of the basics even though a
Physics student could.
     The only question remaining is whether McGill is a lousy
university, whether he's a lousy engineer, or whether he was
brain-washed by taking economics.

     Check out my next articles for more:
     Bible poem which has lots of what you've read here.
     Bank poem which has more of what you've read here.
     LETS press about how Greendollars follow Christ's equation.

     As fighting the money-lending industry makes news, I'll also
publish information on my efforts starting with an article on me
from the "Anthology of Great Canadian Characters" and 800k worth
of press clippings on my activities.
     I would explain that when I am referred to as "the gambler,"
it's because I am a professional gambler and was the Teaching
Assistant of Canada's only Mathematics of Gambling course at
Carleton University for four years. It's also I often use
elementary game theory in explanations and constantly refer to a
casino bank as a perfect model and a casino cashier as a perfect

     These stories are quite unusual and have usually elicited
much denigration in the past so I'll ignore them and concentrate
on answering questions from people who'd like to know more about
how interest-free banking could save the world.
J.C. "The Engineer" Turmel

Subject: Re: TURMEL: Why did Christ speak in parables?

     Stephen Froehlich <froehlik@physics.utexas.edu> wrote:

:On Sat, 8 Jul 1995, John Turmel wrote:
::      The Mathematical formulae may not have been known until
:: after the existence of Christ but they have existed for all time.
:: Would you say that algebra didn't exist until it was discovered
:: or it wasn't known until it was discovered? The formulae were
:: always there, only their discovery was lacking.
:        John, these massive cross posts are a sign of extremely bad
     Give me a break. I see posts with far more conferences
included that I post to. Besides, I don't down-load every
response that's been posted to all the conferences because I
recognize the authors as those I've read in previous conferences.
Don't you?

:Please restrain your posts to the revelant groups, which
:are not prayer, christan life, ethics, and a few others.
     I think that what Christ thought about the sharing of the
world's wealth of abundance is quite relevant to prayer,
christian life and ethics.

:        Now to the rebuttal at hand.  Algebra is a human construct that
:happens to jive with nature.  There is no physical basis for math, it is
:something we have made up.  Math is completely subjective and has no
:basis in the real world.  It is simply a very good way for us to relate
:to it.
     So aliens don't add like we do? Multiply? Divide? I'm sorry
but no matter the construct, we all have to do it the same. So
call that learning "Truth" or the "Holy Ghost" but it's the same

:: :B)  Not everyone subscribes to the "truth" which you indicate
:: :exists as a matter of simple scholarly pursuits;
::      I haven't even told them my "truth" yet so why would they
:: already be not subscribing?
:        You've told us quite enough, thank you.
     I don't think it's optimal to hear half an argument and
decide you've heard enough.

:Math does not describe relationships between God and Man.
:(Unless you want to get into infinities, but that's only one
:small aspect of the relationship.)
     Boolean algebra might be applicable in contemplating how the
set of man's characteristics may intersect with the set of
characteristics God might smile on.

:God is eternal, and outside of time. Therefore time deravites do
:not apply.
     Do not apply to what? Time derivatives do apply to Christ's
message about the monetary situations he was talking about. Time
derivatives apply to life God created.

::      If Christ's statement is the truth, how can the fact it
:: resides in the New Testament suggest that it not be taken as
:: fact?
:        The problem is that Christ's statement is one of many, and your
:statement has little to do with the big picture.  Indeed, he spoke of
:spiritual gifts, which cannot be measured.  Parables have nothing to do
:with money outside of the form of some of them.
     My statement has everything to do with the Big Picture
Christ saw. He was not talking of spiritual gifts in the parables
of the Talents and the Minas. He was talking about "interest" and
the differential equation of how interest in Bank Accounts work.

::      Who says religion can't be based on true science too?
:        Scientists.  That's who.  Science seeks to observe, classify and
:predict.  The truth is the realm of the philosophers and theologians.
     I'm a scientist and I say that Religion is particularly good
when it concords with scientific knowledge and based on Natural
Law. When Religious Law accords with Natural Law, it is valid and
the fact it's religious does not detract from the fact that it is
also scientifically valid. Are you saying that because the Old
Saints in the Bible necessarily had no understanding of advanced
science that therefore they had no understanding of Natural Law?

:: :Differential equations?  I'm no self-proclaimed expert in
:: :differential equations,
:        Don't fret (whoever wrote this), there are some others of
:us around that are "experts" in DiffEq and think this is
     Anyone with eyes that can see and ears that can hear can see
that the differential equation defines how interest works and the
control system is a blue-print of their own bank account. I'm
amazed that can call this "bull-shit."

::      Besides, Stephen Froehlich, an impartial scientist,
:: out 99% of the differential equation on his own. If he can see a
:: differential equation in the prose too, how can you publicly
:: state that you have doubt?
:        (You missed an h in Froehlich. <grin:)  I'd hardly call myself
:impartial.  I vehemently believe that this has nothing to do with
:Christ.  But then again, impartial scientist is a common
:delusion of our society.
     Christ gave a Differential Equation Christ as the reason he
spoke in parables. He spoke in parables because of "Mal-
functioning Bank Accounts." When we go to the parables where he
mentions "Mal-functioning bank accounts" to see what's going on,
lo and behold, it's mort-gages, taxes, debt slavery he's talking
about which are still afflicting our society today. I'm amazed
that you can say that what Christ said has nothing to do with
Christ's message.

     Going over the actual passage:

>Matthew 13:10
>10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto
>them in parables?
     Parables are puzzle with a myriad of seemingly logical
interpretations but with one anchor to reality in the bunch.

>11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to
>know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
     So understanding how to over-come Hell to create Heaven was
given unto them to understand. And it was an understanding about:

>12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more
>abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even
>that he hath.
     Loan-sharking Bank Accounts.

>13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not;
>and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
     Everybody thinks it's normal to try to repay 11 when they
only printed 10. Their kids understand the stupidity of the
demand but since it's the way everybody's always done, they're
convinced that it's the only way it can be done.

>14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which saith, By
>hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall
>see, and shall not perceive:
>15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull
>of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they
>should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should
>understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should
>heal them.
     And playing an elimination game of musical chairs with money
and poverty and death for the losers makes men's hearts grow very

>16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they
     Blessed are the ones who understand the danger of Bank

>17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men]
>have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them];
>and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them].
     And how the system usury works is a wonder to behold. But it
starts with the "Miracle Equation."
     Two readers pointed out that in exponential functions, the
debt grows multiplied by exp(it) while the volume of money
remains unity.
     This means there with 1 unit of money to spend and exp(it)
prices on the store shelves, we can buy $1 out of $exp(it). The
remainder is 1 - 1/exp(it) or 1 - exp(-it) which cannot be sold
is that ratio of businesses get foreclosed upon and the
collateral confiscated.
     In simple algebra, for U= ratio of losers foreclosure, P =
principal, I = interest increased debt, it's I/(P+I).

     For a 20% interest rate, 20%/120% means 1/6 get knocked out
so the other 5/6 can survive.
     For a 100% interest rate where everybody had to come up with
double, 100% / 200% means half get knocked out so the other half
can survive.

::      Rome was just another national empire within the orbit of
:: the world-wide gold-bullion-brokers empire stretching from Europe
:: to Asia just as every nation on Earth today is under the control
:: of a Global Banking cartel. All nations are enslaved by the same
:: device to the same group.
:        Rome didn't thrive on Gold.  It thrived on Iron.  It thrived on
:Grain.  Money was an exchange system the same as it is now.  (They did
:have banks and interest earning accounts back then: it was very
:similar to what it is today.)
     I say that the early Roman State used interest-free Aes
Grave copper money, Stephen tries to tell you it works like today
where governments borrow from private banks at interest. Well I
agree that the Roman State eventually lost control of the
creation of their money which accounts for their decline but I'm
sure that they initially used interest-free Aes Grave money which
accounts for their rise.

:: :To attribute modern mathematical theorums to those times
:: :related by the "testaments" written about that time (centuries
:: :after the fact, actually) is sheer folly.
::      Oh, so what was true in the past is necessarily not true
:: anymore? I have to disagree. The root cause of poverty and
:: slavery then is still the root cause of poverty and slavery now.
:: That's why Stephen Froehlich has a science degree and you don't.
:: He didn't treat it like sheer folly.
:        Actually, it is shear folly in my mind.  I was simply tired of
:waiting for you to write down an equation.  I also think that this
:"scripturally based" new currency system you're thinking of has nothing
:to do with scripture.  To say that a new currency system is "Christian"
:while another isn't is heretical.
     If one system delivers poverty, slavery and death while the
other delivers abundance, freedom and life, I don't see why
saying the life-boat system is heretical.
     I think it's sad that your mind see this as "sheer folly."
You've seen the mathematical equation is Christ's words and
refuse to see. It's almost as if the math part of your brain has
been separated from the emotional part.

::      Not all currencies were based upon valuable metals. The
:: original Roman Empire used fiat Aes Grave copper money. Many
:: other fiat currencies were based on clay, leather, etc. Actually,
:: the very best money has no intrinsic value at all. Credit in a
:: bank's computer is working all over the world now and how much
:: intrinsic value resides in the deposit in your bank account?
:        This is not the newsgroup for discussion of economic theory.
:This is a Christian newsgroup, and we'd appreciate it if you stopped
:discussing it here.  We are here to discuss Christianity, not currency.
     Sorry but Christ spent major amounts of time talking about
Mal-functioning Bank Accounts. I'm amazed that after printing up
a poem with dozens of Bible passages dealing with usury that you
could say that money is not a relevant topic in the Bible.
Besides, when Christ told us how to pray to the Father, he said
to ask Him for relief from our debts. Discussing the trivialities
of Christianity without discussing Christ's suggestion for a
sound currency is missing the whole point of his message.

     On Mon Jul 10 12:06:29 1995, Stephen added:

::      Differential equations can be converted into Laplace
:: Transformations from which we can draw the control system. In my
:: next post, I will provide the control system for your
:: consideration.
:        LaPlace transforms, I'm only vaguely familiar with, but I must
:say that this gets more twisted all the time.  How many LaPlace
:transforms did Christ do?
     As far as I know, two. The first is the usury banking system
and the second is interest-free banking system.

:Jesus dealt with real things and real people.
:He could care less about money except that it represented real value, and
:could be used to feed the poor or alternately rob them at the temple.
:Currency systems have nothing to do with Christianity. They have
:to do with statecraft.
     You say he couldn't care less about money yet he told us
that the reason he spoke in a secret code is because of the money
system. I think currency systems have everything to do with the
secret meaning of Christianity.

:Take your theories elsewhere.  I will not post on this
:subject again.  I hope others will follow so this fizzles.
     So you don't want to discuss anymore. You don't want to hear
more on what you've heard or see more on what you've seen? That's
not very open-minded of you yet, as Christ predicted, "they will
forever be hearing without hearing and seeing without seeing."
Keep up that attitude and you'll fit the bill.
     Besides, I don't think you'll be able to resist keeping up
on this post. If you think about it, it's probably the most
unique stream you've ever been involved in.

::      How can claiming that Christ defined not only the oppressor
:: system but also gave us a system to save ourselves be heresy?
:        Because Jesus wasn't a phiosopher.  He wasn't an economist.  He
:didn't have ANY theories.
     I think Christ was a great philosopher, a great economist
and had a great theory.

:To put Jesus in a box is heresy.  In this
:respect we're all heretics, but you've tried to wedge Jesus the Messiah
:in to the smallest box I've ever seen. The rest of us try to expand our
:field of vision so we can expand our box (though we simply should set our
:conceptions free, but that is another discussion).
     Why? Because solving the differential equation to identify
that Christ was fighting against the Debt System exposes only one
meaning to his mission? World Debts are afflicting all of us and
if using Christ's system solves that problem, I can think of many
who will thank him for his inspiration.
     Simply setting conceptions free is the reason for all the

:You, on the other
:hand have restrained Jesus to a MATHMETICAL EQUATION.  The grammatical
:equivalent of ONE SENTENCE.  I'm from Texas, and I'm sure we could find a
:way to put you in a nice white room for this kind of sillyness down here
     There's nothing to (grin) about. You're laughing not only at
a system that could save your life but also a system which could
help you give up the usurious love of money and save your soul.

::      It means that someone recognized that Christ said he spoke
:: in parables so they wouldn't understand because of an oppressor
:: system he defined in a differential equation which he also used
:: in two of his parables.
:Matthew 7:
:(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
:kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
     And if you don't switch from the usury system of abundance
to Christ's system of sharing abundance, you'll never have
heaven either here on Earth in life or in Heaven after death.

:(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
:prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
:name done many wonderful works? (23) And then will I profess unto them,
:I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
     Prophesising and casting out devils seem less important to him
than building a system which takes care of the poor by sharing of
the community's abundance.

::      I don't remember you being ignorant or insulting though
:: perhaps originally a bit skeptical so there's no blame for you to
:: take.
:        Its getting to the point where I'm getting insulting.  This
:really looks ridiculous.  Christianity isn't about ideologies.  Please
:take them elsewhere.
     You seem convinced you know what Christianity is not about.
It's not about forgiveness of debt, it's not about sharing
abundance, it's not about a mathematical system... Just what do
you think Christianity is about?

::      I realize that he'd like me to observe Net Courtesy when he
:: sends his raving messages but I reserve my courtesy for those who
:: send courteous mail.
:        Now, that is most definitely not a Christ like policy.
     So who said I was into all of Christ's policies. I only
claim to follow Christ's financial policy. Try slapping me on one
cheek and see what happens.

::      I won't bet on my interpretation of this parable like I will
:: on the other two which quote Christ's differential equation but I
:: always thought that parable was meant to say that the work of
:: some is worth more to the buyer than the work of others depending
:: on circumstances and that's what Christian capitalism was all
:: about.
:        The standard intrepation is no matter when you are saved, the
:reward is the same.
     I like that one too. So how come many people think it
denotes Christ promoting an unfair system where some get more
than others?

::      I believe that in the world of the future, people who do the
:: most unpleasant jobs will be paid the most and people who do the
:: most pleasant jobs will be paid the least. And I think that's
:: quite fair because it lets the free capitalist market decide.
:        That would take equal education, supply and demand et cetera.
:And that will never be achieved.
     I don't think so. I pointed out that in a proper
marketplace, the jobs will be offered on the community bulletin
board and I'm betting that the dirty jobs will command more pay
because they will attract less people. The amount of education
will be nothing but the threshold qualifications of people
applying for the job. I bet it will take more pay to lure
electricians into fixing wiring in the city's sewers than fixing
wires in the open air. And I think that is just.

::      Stephen Froehlich <froehlik@physics.utexas.edu: wrote again:
:: :dx/dt = .1x
::      Correct for a balance=x and interest=10%
:: :dx/.1x = dt
:: :t = 10ln(x) + c
:: :.1*t - c = ln(x)
:: :x = exp(.1*t - c)
:: :  = C * exp(.1*t)
::      I agree with every step but the last. I assume that c=0 and
:: you can't move the "c" out of the exponent like that. But you had
:: solved the differential equation up to that point.
:c =/= C.  C = exp(c).  You know how this works.  If c=0, then everyone
:starts with the same amount.  C= x(0).  c= ln(C) = ln(x(0))
     You'll notice in my previous post that I did say:

:I agreed with every step but the last and said the "c"
:couldn't be moved out of the exponent like that. Of course, he is
:correct if C=exp(c) which is a constant and equal to 1 if c=o.
     So we do agree. I usually talk about how the individual unit
of money grows and letting C be the original deposit or loan
handles actual numbers.

:      Yes. dx/dt = .1x has the solution x=exp(.1*t)
:        A solution.
     A solution for one unit of money.

::      It is the reason he spoke in parables so I would think that
:: it is at the heart of his teachings. Didn't he sympathize with
:: the poor? Wouldn't he indict a system which takes from the poor
:: to give to the rich? Wouldn't a system where the rich helped the
:: poor become rich too be Heaven on Earth?
:        What?  By taking from the poor and relying on the rich to give
:freely, we will create the kingdom of heaven.
     You've got it backwards. I never said we should take from
the poor and rely on the rich to give freely. I'm not in favor of
taking or giving. I'm in favor of lending interest-free.
     Christ said "Lend expecting nothing in return."
     The rich should bring their abundance to the cashier and
register their abundance and the poor should borrow it and try to
pay it back.
     I rarely give to the poor. I lend and I've lent much always
hoping it helps them get on their feet so they can pay me back.
     About 15 years ago, I lent a young broke guy $4. A couple of
years later, when I was in one of my fairly broke periods, I was
sitting in a restaurant. The kid was at another table with a
group. He took up a collection from his friends and came and paid
me off. I told him he couldn't believe how much that $4 meant to
me right at that time. That is one of my most heart-warming
experiences in "lending expecting nothing in return." I would say
that most people never get ahead and have not repaid what I
loaned them but since I expected nothing in return, it has never
bothered me.

:Most social gospel types
:are liberals, not libertarians.  As Spock would say:  intruiging.  In
:the US, its the tax and entitlement programs that affect redistribution
:of wealth.  The currency system is just a way to keep track of things.
:Is it that different in Canada?
     The currency system does more than just keep track of
things. Christ's currency equation would do that but the present
currency system takes from the negatives to give to the

::      Yes, it is an unheard of interpretation which takes the cake
:: and you are only the second person I know of who has solved it.
:: Why will it be so hard now to consider what the social
:: ramifications are?
:        It won't.  The equation is something any scientist or engineer
:can solve.  I just don't think anyone else wanted to.
     And those who never wanted to didn't want to know the reason
Christ spoke in parables to his meanings were not understood.

:I don't care about the social ramifaications.
     Christ certainly did. So do I.

:We are talking about christian ethics here,
:or christian philosophy, or christian theology.  Take your econmics to an
:economics group.
     And how can you trust Christian ethics, philosophy and
theology is you don't get to the root of why he spoke the way he

:What you speak of has nothing to do with the teachings of Christ.
     What he spoke of has everything to do with the teachings of

:I wish you and your political party the best of luck.  I, on
:the other hand, need to call my stock broker.
     That's right. Keep trying to multiply your abundance while
those without abundance are starving. And if my party is
successful, the poor will be saved from the debt slavery with
their own interest-free credit cards whether you think it's
Christian or not.

     On Jul 10 00:17:23 1995, Paul Hook <sturmritter@delphi.com>

:::Jesus spoke in parables because he was following set Pharisee tradition,
::     I doubt it. Christ called the Pharisees "lovers of money"
::and I can't think of a greater insult to his memory than to call
::him a Pharisee.
:How true!  The bottom line is that Christ taught in parables, so
:that those who did not study the scriptures would not know his
:Proverbs 1:7 states this quite succinctly, "Fear of the Lord is
:the beginning of wisdom, but fools despise wisdom and

     <3t9gns$jgn@ionews.io.org>, karl mamer <kamamer@io.org> in
wrote in Subject: Re: Rising Kook: TURMEL & the differential bible

:John Turmel is a failed politician in Toronto, Canada. He's got this
:theory that Christ spoke in not only parables but in differential equations.
:This isn't an official nomination, but I think Turmel is an up 'n' coming
:Kook and offers greater promise, if sufficiently baited.
     I think the fact that Stephen says that any engineer could
also figure out the differential equation means the topic isn't
as kooky as these losers think.

::      Differential equations can be converted into Laplace
:: Transformations from which we can draw the control system. In my
:: next post, I will provide the control system for your
:: consideration.
:Exactly how old were you when your wife and kids left you?

     Mamer's wit eludes me if there is any.

     3mpa@qlink.queensu.ca (Marco Anglesio) commented:

:I've been back for all of 2 days (hi all; bienvenue, Yves), and I've
:found my first addition to the killfile. Thank you very much, Turmel.
:  He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure - James Allen
     It's obvious that this failure hasn't conquered his doubt or
he couldn't fear what I have to say. He's proud of what he
doesn't want to know. Not much of an achiever, I'd say.

     fche@elastic.org (Frank Ch. Eigler) wrote: :

:John Turmel (johnturmel@yahoo.com) wrote:
:: [...]
:: :Religion is based on faith, mathematics on true science.
::      Who says religion can't be based on true science too?
:I do for example.  Religion is by definition irrational,
:while science is by definition rational.  There seems to me
:to be quite a difference.
     I still say it's foolish to say Religion is by definition
irrational and science is by definition rational. I've presented
both religious and scientific arguments and against interest
which concord and because he can't see they've both right, he
relies on pedantic generalities. Well, the mere fact they agree
and he can't see it means his opinion on science is not be taken
seriously. Christ was really right when he said that when it
comes to interest, the theme affects the head.

     One reader wrote:

::     The most important posts are
::1) Mathematics of Debt Slavery
::2) The Third Way
::     If you can't find them, I'll email them to you.
:No, I haven't seen the originals recently on can.gov.general
:where I'm following your threads.
:Please e-mail them to me. I am making other people curious and
:they want copies too.  Thanks!
     So not everybody thinks Christ and Math make uninteresting

     Another reader wrote on my post "Poem on Bible and Usury"

:John, keep up the good work.  I don't know a diff eq from a pile
:of cow dung, but I know a good teacher when I see (read) one.  I
:enjoyed your posts on the parables and this poem.

     As long as some readers appreciate the slant on money I
present, all the boo-birds in the world won't discourage me. So
why keep sending the insulting posts which merely indicate that
you can't keep up with the crowd who do? At least it makes for
some interesting rebuttals for reposting.
     Any bets Marco Anglesio didn't kill-file my name and he's
reading this?
John C. Turmel, B. Eng.

Subject: Re: TURMEL: Why did Christ speak in parables?

     Baldeggle@aol.com wrote:

:John!  IMHO you have proven two things in your posts on parables:
:1) The Bible has a mathematical exactness and a scientific
:precision to it.
     That's was my impression too. I couldn't believe how many of
the saints in the Old Testament had figured out that the flaw in
their society was usury.
     Then, I was amazed when I reconized a mathematical equation
in Christ's parables. And he stated the D.E. four times to boot.
Twice he stated it in parables about interest.
     Many people think that the parables are about physical
frailties but they're really about interest and within the same
story, he also describes interest in its D.E.
     Since it fits in with my game theoretical equation for the
LETSystem, I have to conlude that barter-made-easy with interest-
free electronic accounting units are set the world free from our
exponentially-growing debts.
     I'm trying to wake up the Christians, the Jews, the Muslims
that the New Testament, Old Testament and Koran all agree on
usury and it's one major thing we can agree on.
     The Good Equation is here and it's spreading all around the
world. Watch out for the posts on LETS press.

:2) Those who choose to hear, will; and those who choose not to
:hear, will not.
     It's really amazing. If they don't catch on that running
money like Poker chips makes finance simple and stable, they'll
never catch on. A man convinced against his will is a man
unconvinced still. These guys have stuck their face on the Public
BBS and laughed at something that's working. It's hard to admit
they were wrong.
     It's just like a painting which has within it a hidden face.
It may be originally hard to see but when you do, it jumps right
out at you from then on and you wonder how you could have missed
seeing it in the first place.
     What's funny is not that they have legitimate questions
about a wondrous new financial system that's sweeping the world.
It's that that they come up with perceived problems that are
laughable from a casino cashiering point of view.

:Now an observation from a humble believer.  You have an uncanny ability to
:make even the reprobates "hang on" waiting for your next post.
     That's because they can't believe it can be that simple.
Though they can't find anything wrong with a Poker chip system,
they're expecting someone else to."It isn't that simple" has been
bred into them. With millions of economsts around the world
scratching their heads over the problem, they can't believe
something so simple can be right? It would be an admission that
we've been fooled by the workings of our "token" system.
     Financial education is so backwards that I can make a
statement which grates right at their core:
     "More money in circulation would bring down inflation."
     That's totally opposite to everything they've been trained
to believe. Inflation is actually a reduction in the collateral
being chased by the same money and not more money chasing the
     Because everyone owing $110 for every $100 borrowed creates
a kind of musical chairs where someone must always fail, everyone
thinks the way to balance it is to knock someone out. Just as
adding a chair would prevent anyone being knocked out, adding
money would prevent anyone being knocked into foreclosure and
less seizure of collateral. But to them, it's unheard of playing
musical chairs with enough chairs. But it would balance the

     From my Mathematics of Debt Slavery:

     The word "mort-gage" is derived from the French word "mort"
meaning "death" and "gage" meaning "gamble". Bankers create the money
supply when they make loans. Producers are forced to gamble by
borrowing newly created Principal(P) to pay for production costs and
then inflating their prices to earn back the Principal and
Interest(P+I) in sales. Because total goods priced at (P+I) can never
be sold when consumers only have P dollars available, a minimum amount
of goods must remain unsold and a minimum number of producers must
fail and suffer foreclosure. The economist Keynes likened the mort-
gage death-gamble to the game of musical chairs. Just as there are
insufficient chairs for all to survive the musical chairs death-
gamble, so too, there is insufficient money for all to repay (P+I) and
survive the mort-gage death-gamble.

P < principle, I < Interest, i < Interest Rate, t < Time
                               PERCENT    ALGEBRA   EXP. FUNC
Production costs (principal)     100         P          1

Production prices (Debt)        100+i       P+I       exp(it)

Purchasable Value                100         P           1
or ratio of money to prices     -----      -----      -------
or survivors                    100+i       P+I       exp(it)

Unpurchasable value               i          P             1
or forced unemployment     U=  -----      -----    1 - --------
or non-survivors                100+i       P+I         exp(it)

For U=0, let                     i=0        I=0      i=0 or t=0

     The odds of survival are always set by the interest rate(i).
P/(P+I) survive, I/(P+I) do not.

     The equation for the minimum inflation (J) we must suffer is the
same as the equation for unemployment (U) because the fraction of the
people foreclosed on is the fraction of collateral confiscated.
     Draw a large H and label the first left line as "$" and the right
line "Collateral."
     Draw a small arrow up from the left axis. Label it "Shift A."
     Draw another arrow down from the right axis labelled "Shift B."
     Draw a line from the tip of the "Shift A" arrow to the base of
the "Shift B" arrow and vice versa.
     Though we are led to believe that inflation is caused by an
increase in the money chasing the goods (Shift A), actually, due to
foreclosures, it is caused by a decrease in the collateral backing up
the money (Shift B). Though both inflations shifts feel the same, the
graph shows inflation is the direct function of interest, not the
inverse exposing the Big Lie that interest fights inflation.
     Most people who have not studied economics, if asked whether
interest fights or causes inflation, are quick to agree that a merchant
must pass on increased interest costs in his prices and therefore it
is evident that increased interest costs will result in increased
prices. After a thorough brainwashing, economists have been convinced
that increased interest costs will result in decreased prices as they
constantly explain that "interest fights inflation."

     So, they've got everybody looking at Shift A and they're so
trained on shift A that they can't even turn around to look if
Shift B is the problem. They are victims of a classic case of
Orwell's double-think. When you see that it is a reduction in
collateral that could not be sold to the same money chasing it,
rather than more money chasing the collateral, everything becomes

:God has obviously gifted you as a teacher, in the true sense of
:the Word.
     Thank you. I do know I present an entertaining show in front
of a blackboard or reading some of these posts. I have tapes of
speeches which have lasted over an hour.
    As the Teaching Assistant of the Mathematics of Gambling
course, I got some chances but I had a great teacher at
Carleton in my Math Professor, Dr. Walter Schneider. He taught
Second Year Engineering Math and had a style that made Integral
Calculus and Differential Equations easy to understand. He was
also the Prof. of the Mathematics of Gambling course and I had
several more years to watch in action.
     I must admit I'm rougher with the barbs than he would find
accceptable but I think anyone standing in the way of a workable
financial system that could cure the world's ills deserves to be
laughed out of the way.
     I know it infuriates them not to be able to find something
wrong because they think "it's not that simple, it can't be
right," but I've never seen someone vehemently opposed to the
concept of "Usury as the man-kind killer" ever come around.

:One last thing.  One reader said "Religion is by definition
irrational, while science is by definition rational."  Would he
:consider the theory of evolution rational?
     Tough question. I see the issue as:
     1) God created the Big Bang and watches the shows in those
patches of garden-matter which randomly give birth to animal
civilizations, VERSUS,
     2) God didn't wait 15 billion-years for our development and,
in a creationary work of art, fashioned the building blocks and
started a population just recently.
     I think of it as seeing the Hydro-Power generator generating
electricity down the wire into my home. I see the power going
into the wall. I see the power coming out of the wall. But I
grant the probability that there could be a generator in the wall
and it's not coming from the power-plant. But I'd bet on the rise
of civilizations with God in no rush.

:One teacher said "Changing species with DNA through
:random chance over time is roughly equivalent statistically to building a 747
:from the spare parts in a junk yard by sending in a tornado."  A recent post
:said "Evolution is the equivalent of putting the parts to 1000 watches in a
:box, shaking the box for 10,000 years, and opening the box expecting to find
:1000 new watches."  Now I am not a scientist, mathematician or statistician,
:but that sounds completely irrational to me.  Perhaps I'm too simple to
:understand such complex things. :-D
     I've hit a 650,000 to 1 long-shot Royal Flush. I've hit many
65,000:1 Straight Flushes. The one thing I am trained to watch
out for is small-probability long-shots.
     What you've offered here are extremely long odds. Billions,
trillions, trillions of trillions to one odds and more.
     I'd assume that if ever the 747 came together during that
tornado, it would weather the rest of the storm.
     Let's look at the state of the matter at every second.
     It's either a 747 or it's still in pieces.
     Using the assumed the 15 billion year age of God's
playground, that's a lot of seconds and a lot of looks.
     That's 7,889,400,000,000,000 chances for a 747 to appear.
     Would you say the odds are more than 1 in 8 million billion
times. I'd still say no.
     Now what are the odds of a particular set of molecules all
being found at the same place and getting zapped by a bolt of
lightning to spawn life.
     I believe that God was capable of providing the building
blocks which would interact in a random fashion to create life.
I'd therefore bet that planets in similar orbits around similar
suns -- different test tubes, really -- might have spawned life
too. So though the examples given are ludicrously too improbable,
is it necessarily so that the life formula is also that
improbable. I bet not.

     What's neat about looking at the world in a game theoretic
way is that you think in terms of a spectrum of probabilities.
     Eg: At hold-em Poker where each opponent gets two cards and
five cards end up in the middle of the table in common, if there
are three hearts on the board and I have a Kh9h, I have a King
high heart flush. If I bet and I get raised, I know he can also
have two hearts but the chances of him having two hearts with the
Ace for an Ace-high flush to beat me are over 150:1 and I'll
raise him again knowing I lose $40 once for the extra $20 I'll
win 150 times. Most weak players play scared and if raised, they
automatically worry about the cinch and don't make the extra
$3,000 per hundred an fifty situations.
     If I have a Queen-high flush, I'll still raise because it's
77:1 of his having the Ace- or King-high flush.
     Of course, some players are scared all the way and just
won't raise without the Ace-high flush fearing I have it. A raise
from a scared rock is usually a pain because it's really hard to
fold a King-high flush. It's the type of hand you almost have to
pay off.
     In the creationary spectrum, there is a probability that
life arose over time and there's a probability it was a "turn-
key" package. I'd bet on the Big Bang.
     If I could bet 5 minutes worth of my time at phenomenal
odds, I might even bet on the 747 within the next million
billion years.
     If you really want some fun, cross post some of these
articles and ask for comments. Then quiz them.

     ucecspb@ucl.ac.uk (Simon Pearson Brocklebank) wrote:

:however it just seems to me after following the thread of the
:argument on Why Jesus spoke in Parables that your just going
:around in needless circles! Perhaps we should remember that the
:fruits of the flesh include divisions, factions and arguments.
:why don't we concentrate upon building one another up, upon
:hearing what each other are actually saying, listening to GOD and
:through him learn how to build one another up in love. And
:through His wonderful grace produce the fruit of faith, love,
     Because I'm saying that the LETS financial system can save
our world and they're saying it can't. Discussing life-and-death
issues does elicit some vehemence and that vehemence is what
attracts many readers. And because how the money system works has
been so misrepresented that the truth sounds very strange indeed.

Re: TURMEL: Poem about the Bible and Usury

     jkodish@thwap.ve6mgs.ampr.ab.ca (Jason Kodish) wrote:

::I've been back for all of 2 days (hi all; bienvenue, Yves), and I've
::found my first addition to the killfile. Thank you very much, Turmel.
:Welcome to our circle of Hell, Marco. I bid you welcome.  :-)
     If I'm on Jason's kill-list too, how did he catch this post?
John "The Engineer" Turmel

     I've been fighting this fight for 16 years from the very
first moment I saw the link between casino chips and money and
lots of people have laughed at my efforts which, happilly,
generated much local, national and even international publicity
stunts for the Abolition of Interest Rates.
     And now that the Christ-inspired LETS program is spreading
around the world with tens of thousands setting up their own
financial life-boats, it bugs them when I remind them that it was
my financing that kick-started the software's development in the
early eighties and they hate to see me proven right.
     I feel like the kid who shouted "The King has no clothes
on." "The King's Usury dollars don't work and Our Own
Greendollars do."
     I stuck it in their faces all across the country and that
makes me a radical in people's eyes.
     And now I'm not alone in having derived the equation from
that statement.
     Can you not imagine how pleasant it is to find that it is a
problem that could be solved by most science stream university
     I'd like Stephen to give his class a little test.
     With Balance = B, % increase = i, time = t, what is the
differential equation for:
     "To him who has abundance will more be given and from him
who has no abundance, even what he has will be taken away."
     Then ask if they can come up with the one-word name for the
system that does this.


     I'm a new breed of engineer. I'm not like the guys who
obeyed when the economists said they couldn't afford to wait to
blast off even though the rubber seals had frozen up.

Subject: Re: TURMEL: Why did Christ speak in parables?

     Michael.Hubbard@internetmci.com (Michael Hubbard) sent a
message on Subject: Jesus

:Jesus is the only person,place thing what ever you want to call
:it that can save this world not your lets or all the other things
:you have mention.I sorry to bust your bubble Gods plan is going
:just like God knew it would.Please when you post in any Christian
:news group  Give all praises which are due to Jesus I really don't
:care about how u use playing poker to Jesus parables.You my friend
:have missed the real reason behind the parables of Jesus,u missed
:them by a mile I don't trully think you have a idea on what
:Jesus really ment.
:Jesus is Love

     If you don't understand what he meant when he said "I speak
in parables because interest makes rich get richer and the poor
get poorer," how can you hope to think I don't know why he speaks
in parables and you do.
     Until you can do more than just say you disagree, I'll
assume you have nothing more to offer.

     kinwood@inforamp.net (J Kirby Inwood) added his lofty

:he didn't speak in parables, he spoke in Aramaic
:J Kirby Inwood Toronto Fax 416 778 5194
:DTP, Creative Services, Advertising and Copy Writing
     Would you trust this man to be very creative?
John C. Turmel

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